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Its finally here! Official plugin for Intellij, directly from Jetbrains:
Details on our blog:
https://chrononsystems.com/blog/chrono...
Can this be integrated with IntelliJ
Official Responses
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EMPLOYEE
I’m happy
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I am marking this as closed. This is as far as we are going with intellij integration at this point.
We don't see Chronon as an exclusive to Eclipse and we have described how you can use both Chronon and Intellij at the same time.
If you are too uncomfortable about opening a separate window on your desktop, we cannot help you with that. -
Frankly I don't see what the big issue is here.
The solution we have proposed just requires you to Alt+Tab to the eclipse window and press the record/playback button there instead of Intellij.
There are many development tools out there which run standalone and you have to open a separate window for them. These include profilers like YourKit, JProfiler and tools like Jira, Teamcity, Hudson, Perforce P4V etc.
Some may have minor integrations inside the ide itself, but the main gui resides outside of your ide.
When we first began developing Chronon over 4 years ago, we picked Eclipse as our platform because it was the only free and open source ide out there and anyone who was using a different ide could just download eclipse for free and use Chronon.
We could have rebranded eclipse and given it different name like Chronon Player, but we didnt feel the need to do that.
We don't see Chronon as being exclusive to Eclipse users. Yeah its a tad easier to get started, but otherwise the functionality is platform agnostic.
Thus given the above, the only integration that really makes sense for Chronon with intellij is having the source code available when you switch to the eclipse window, so that you can debug.
And that is the solution we have described in the document.
Exporting is a one time process for each project and after that eclipse will stay in sync with your source code changes from intellij.
I appreciate Dennis's offer, but even he does not how complex the chronon UI really is. We have been working on it for years and the fact that you think that it can be implemented easily goes on to show how much thought and engineering has gone in making the UI simple enough.
Jetbrains would require putting a huge amount of resources, money and time to get to the current state of Chronon and by that time Chronon would have moved further. If we thought the partnership with Jetbrains would have been useful we would have contacted them long ago. But I will reiterate my point here, that we dont see this as an Eclipse vs Intellij thing. We just see Chronon as this standalone tool. If you are an eclipse user, you press the record/playback button from within eclipse itself, if you use intellij you press alt+tab to switch to Chronon to press the same button.
Bottom line, neither us nor Jetbrains is stupid enough to put huge resources into making a native version of Chronon for Intellij just because doing an Alt+Tab is less convenient to you.
If however you have any real issues with keeping your source in sync let us know and we will try to fix it, or let Jetbrains know if there are any bugs in the 'Export to Eclipse' functionality itself. -
For all the Intellij users we have now published a comprehensive guide:
We welcome feedback on this guide and will continue improving it to keep it up-to-date with Chronon releases and more detailed information if required. -
No plans yet, but I would love to see if this gets more votes.
Promoted Responses
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9Btw, do you use any (may be internal) API for Chronon-recorded data processing? I mean that if you have it, we may think about writing intellij plugin our self here in JetBrains. -
I’m sad
3This is highly disappointing. -
3Hi guys,
I think Chronon is a great product and I look forward, one day, being able to use it within IntelliJ IDEA.
If you look at the reaction of people on this thread, I think you can understand that it only reflects how keen people are to use Chronon with their favourite IDE.
I can understand documenting exactly how to use Chronon along-side IDEA, albeit still within Eclipse. But you can't avoid getting people excited and then disappointed when they realise it's not what they were hoping for.
@Prashant: How did you know Chronon was a viable product when you first built it, even only in the Eclipse market? The fact that this only has 57 votes likely reflects the awareness of your project rather than the potential IntelliJ market. Have any of your development team investigated the cost of an IntelliJ plugin? In my experience, plugin development in IntelliJ is incredibly friendly. I also wouldn't overlook the fact that the IntelliJ market is probably more willing to spend money on a product like Chronon given that the primary IntelliJ product (IDEA Ultimate) costs money. Obviously you shouldn't compromise your chances for success given that your a startup with startup resources - this is just a friendly suggestion to think about the real pros/cons of an IDEA plugin. -
I’m frustrated
4Well, if you do appreciate our passion, how come the answer was phrased like that?
I quote:
For all the Intellij users we have now published a comprehensive guide:
Using Chronon with Intellij IDEA
Am I missing something? Where does it say "we're sorry it's not currently possible to support IDEA"? Where does it say "It's not possible, but here's a workaround"?
All it says is, "Here's the guide." I spent 5 minutes trying to realize whether you're joking: I open the "comprehensive guide" and see an instruction on Eclipse. I mean, what?!
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No plans yet, but I would love to see if this gets more votes.Comment
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I'd like to buy it but I use IntelliJ Idea for everything and would not switch to Eclipse, please add the support for Idea as well!
Thanks
Demetrio -
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Yes, another vote for IntelliJ support.
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2I personally can't stand Eclipse after having used IntelliJ IDEA for many years. Every time I try it (and I did several times), it just gets in my way and makes programming less enjoyable. I know it works for many people, but just not for me.
I've seen Chronon advertised a couple of times now on several blogs and I always dicarded it as soon as I noticed it is for Eclipse only, even though the technology looks very cool and I would have bought it instantly if it were available for IntelliJ IDEA.
I really don't mind paying for software that makes me do my work better or more efficient, but if it makes my dayjob less enjoyable I won't buy it.
You advertise the Eclipse Readyness like this: "Chronon integrates seamlessly with Eclipse. No need to learn a whole whole new environement."
So you must already realize how much of an impact it has, having to change environments?-
Strange, isn't it? Even for a time-travelling debugger, I wouldn't change from IntelliJ.
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+1. Don't see myself using anything else but IDEA now...
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I'm another IntelliJ user who would be getting this now if it were a plugin for Idea. -
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People please vote using the '+1' button at the top.
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I'll buy this too when you have an Idea plugin. I would be a willing tester for a beta version of the plugin.
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I would consider purchasing this if a plugin for IntelliJ would be developed. -
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I would buy an Intellij Plugin.
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Paying customer. Having to deal with Eclipse is a real pain for me in the current project I'm working on.
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For all the Intellij users we have now published a comprehensive guide:
We welcome feedback on this guide and will continue improving it to keep it up-to-date with Chronon releases and more detailed information if required.-
A more accurate name would be: 'Exporting your IntelliJ projects to Eclipse so you can use Chronon'
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I’m disappointed
1Prashant,
The article does serve a purpose by saving people some pointless search time, but to me it is very disappointing -- users are simply instructed to migrate to Eclipse.
1) It would be simpler to just export binaries+source for debug only -- this way you don't have to assume a portable build. Maven is surprisingly good at this stuff -- building huge jars with class files and source files of all dependencies.
2) Initiating recording from within IntelliJ requires Chronon Recording Server, sold separately. A year ago, standalone recording w/o IDE was supported by the core product! By upgrading I've actually gone backwards! (Please tell me I've missed something here)
A solution doesn't have to be direct support for IntelliJ -- you could provide a "playback server" that will function as a JPDA adapter -- this will allow "plain old" playback debugging in an IDE agnostic way. Additional functionality can be supported by JPDA extensions, which leaves the community a relatively simple task of slapping on some UI for accessing basic time travelling functionality.
I'm a fan of your product, which makes the article's non-solution especially frustrating to me. -
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I’m disappointed
Prashant, A-R-E Y-O-U *SERIOUS*?! Have you in your sane mind read your own article?!
We *ALL* know how to import an Idea project into Eclipse. You cannot possibly say that an Intellij solution (which should be an actual plugin for Chronon) would require one to export their project to Eclipse and start using that as their IDE.
Seriously!!!
If we wanted to use Eclipse, there wouldn't be this request here.
This is a *VERY* disappointing response. -
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Guys, as I have mentioned previously, we have no current plans of doing an intellij integration.
If you are using Intellij, you gotta view Eclipse as a standalone tool. We could have changed the splash screen and called it 'Chronon player' (and we might in the future).
calsrping:
1. apparently no. *ALL* people dont know how to export idea projects into eclipse.
2. also it seems *you* have not read the article well. the article says that you can keep editing or doing everything else in intellij. its just that when you need to use chronon, you will have the sources uptodate when you open eclipse.
nadav, we are not telling you to migrate. all we saying is how to get your sources inside eclipse. you can still keep using intellij for the rest of your needs.
we took out the standalone recording because it required a ton of configuration, it was tough to manage recordings on a disk, and specially it remote machines all this got 10x worse. People were having a ton of issues with it.
We made a decision to either provide the best, most user friendly experience or none at all. Thats why we decided to remove standalone recording entirely and create the Recording Server product.
We know using Chronon alongside Intellij is not the most optimal solution, so we are trying to show you the most painless way to use it with what is currently available. -
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I’m still disappointed
1@Prashant:
I actually read the article quite well. In fact, I understood it even better.
Using two IDE-s or switching to Eclipse is not what we, as developers, need or want (in this particular case).
Basically, if we wanted a solution outside of a plugin for Idea, this discussion would not exist at all. I mean -- REALLY -- it wouldn't.
This whole solution sounds to me like the case were a conservative vendor doesn't want to port their Windows app to Linux and just so that there is a "Linux solution" they make a Linux package that is in fact Wine, along with a configuration for it and the actual Windows binary. I mean -- come on!
I really think you're missing a point here. Intellij developers are actually paying for an IDE. Quite a sum, in fact, as opposed to Eclipse users. I reckon, if you were smart enough, you would be targeting more of the solvent users as they would likely be bringing you more revenue than the rest of the guys out there using free tools/IDE-s like Eclipse.
Anyhow. -
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carlspring,
I know everyone on this thread wants an intellij plugin.
But a mere 57 votes dont make economic sense for us to create an intellij port at the moment.
Chronon is still a startup and we want to the absolute best job on one platform rather than a mediocre one on both platforms. The platform we have picked is eclipse, for all sorts of reasons which i dont care to go into. Bottom line is there is no going back now.
I appreciate your passion for Intellij and for Chronon. I can see that passion turning into anger against us but really all we are trying is to help you get the best experience with the products and resources we currently have.-
That is why may be to open API and people will make plugin for IDEA ???
It will be more popular with almost no cost from your company! Is an it a good promotion of start-up? -
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Prashant,
Thanks for your time! I actually appreciate your quick responses.
I am by no means angry. You guys have an interesting product which should (and could) have come out a long while ago.
I understand how a startup company would have troubles assigning resource to develop support for all the platforms out there. (And I know it's not necessary to support them all). I also understand the importance of targeting clients which would be willing to pay for a product.
However, if you won't be addressing Idea, I would suggest you guys don't propose solutions which aren't for it, as people won't take them seriously.
What number of votes should there be in order for you guys to consider this?
All the best. -
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I’m frustrated
4Well, if you do appreciate our passion, how come the answer was phrased like that?
I quote:
For all the Intellij users we have now published a comprehensive guide:
Using Chronon with Intellij IDEA
Am I missing something? Where does it say "we're sorry it's not currently possible to support IDEA"? Where does it say "It's not possible, but here's a workaround"?
All it says is, "Here's the guide." I spent 5 minutes trying to realize whether you're joking: I open the "comprehensive guide" and see an instruction on Eclipse. I mean, what?! -
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3Hi guys,
I think Chronon is a great product and I look forward, one day, being able to use it within IntelliJ IDEA.
If you look at the reaction of people on this thread, I think you can understand that it only reflects how keen people are to use Chronon with their favourite IDE.
I can understand documenting exactly how to use Chronon along-side IDEA, albeit still within Eclipse. But you can't avoid getting people excited and then disappointed when they realise it's not what they were hoping for.
@Prashant: How did you know Chronon was a viable product when you first built it, even only in the Eclipse market? The fact that this only has 57 votes likely reflects the awareness of your project rather than the potential IntelliJ market. Have any of your development team investigated the cost of an IntelliJ plugin? In my experience, plugin development in IntelliJ is incredibly friendly. I also wouldn't overlook the fact that the IntelliJ market is probably more willing to spend money on a product like Chronon given that the primary IntelliJ product (IDEA Ultimate) costs money. Obviously you shouldn't compromise your chances for success given that your a startup with startup resources - this is just a friendly suggestion to think about the real pros/cons of an IDEA plugin.-
Writing a plugin for IntelliJ is fairly easy. The API+docs are open source. There's actually an opensource version of Idea as well. I mean -- from what I understand, you'll simply have to write a new frontend for your tool in order to get it to work under Idea.
As a developer, I quite frankly don't agree that the cost to develop such a plugin would be quite that high to outweigh the benefit.
57 votes is a lot from the community. Yeah, maybe not all of the developers who've heard about Chronon and use Idea have come to vote here. But most people don't really take the time. -
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I’m disappointed,
2Mmm. That's not really a solution I'm afraid. I can understand your reasons for not wanting to spare the resources on an IntelliJ port, so I'm sure you understand why folk probably don't want to faff about with Eclipse.
Chronon is a great idea but I think I'll pass. -
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I’m sad
3This is highly disappointing.
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9Btw, do you use any (may be internal) API for Chronon-recorded data processing? I mean that if you have it, we may think about writing intellij plugin our self here in JetBrains.
- view 2 more comments
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+1 on this.
@Prashant - it doesn't get better than this. Jetbrains is offering help! Now there is really no excuse. It's a win-win for you folks and we developers awaiting to use Chronon on our beloved IDE! -
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I agree, if Jetbrain decide to help that's a good opportunity and I can finally think about buying Chronon as well :)
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This option is ridiculous. Developers who use IntelliJ want a native version, not an eclipse installed. -
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Frankly I don't see what the big issue is here.
The solution we have proposed just requires you to Alt+Tab to the eclipse window and press the record/playback button there instead of Intellij.
There are many development tools out there which run standalone and you have to open a separate window for them. These include profilers like YourKit, JProfiler and tools like Jira, Teamcity, Hudson, Perforce P4V etc.
Some may have minor integrations inside the ide itself, but the main gui resides outside of your ide.
When we first began developing Chronon over 4 years ago, we picked Eclipse as our platform because it was the only free and open source ide out there and anyone who was using a different ide could just download eclipse for free and use Chronon.
We could have rebranded eclipse and given it different name like Chronon Player, but we didnt feel the need to do that.
We don't see Chronon as being exclusive to Eclipse users. Yeah its a tad easier to get started, but otherwise the functionality is platform agnostic.
Thus given the above, the only integration that really makes sense for Chronon with intellij is having the source code available when you switch to the eclipse window, so that you can debug.
And that is the solution we have described in the document.
Exporting is a one time process for each project and after that eclipse will stay in sync with your source code changes from intellij.
I appreciate Dennis's offer, but even he does not how complex the chronon UI really is. We have been working on it for years and the fact that you think that it can be implemented easily goes on to show how much thought and engineering has gone in making the UI simple enough.
Jetbrains would require putting a huge amount of resources, money and time to get to the current state of Chronon and by that time Chronon would have moved further. If we thought the partnership with Jetbrains would have been useful we would have contacted them long ago. But I will reiterate my point here, that we dont see this as an Eclipse vs Intellij thing. We just see Chronon as this standalone tool. If you are an eclipse user, you press the record/playback button from within eclipse itself, if you use intellij you press alt+tab to switch to Chronon to press the same button.
Bottom line, neither us nor Jetbrains is stupid enough to put huge resources into making a native version of Chronon for Intellij just because doing an Alt+Tab is less convenient to you.
If however you have any real issues with keeping your source in sync let us know and we will try to fix it, or let Jetbrains know if there are any bugs in the 'Export to Eclipse' functionality itself.- view 7 more comments
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Prashant - it is obvious your mind is made up and I in some way agree with Demetrio that you somewhat sound arrogant/defensive.
Users of eclipse have a choice that they don't have to use the recording server (at least during the development cycle and still benefit from what Chronon as to offer). No sane developer will use the recording server with that cycle when trying to do agile development. It just kills your joy for developing. I can see the value when you have a bug outside development eg in QA or production.
BTW, I did use the "easier" method of pointing eclipse to the tar, but there was a bug there. It kept crashing. Your agent finally pointed me to using command line while he worked on a fix. He did later tell me the issue was fixed but I never got the update to retry.
It's your product and it's a free world. You are fee to do whatever you choose but please try and be more cautious when replying/responding to potential customers in future.
Cheers -
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groovybayo,
In the document we do describe how you can record from within the eclipse plugin without using the recording server, while still using intellij as your main ide. So you dont need to use the recording server if you dont want to. -
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They opened, and you just guessed something and closed the door, I'm not working with 2 IDEs opened and I don't want to use Eclipse...
Also if it is so much connected to a single IDE, I think you should review your architecture...
Thanks for everything, maybe IntelliJ itself will come with some similiar idea...
Bye -
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I am marking this as closed. This is as far as we are going with intellij integration at this point.
We don't see Chronon as an exclusive to Eclipse and we have described how you can use both Chronon and Intellij at the same time.
If you are too uncomfortable about opening a separate window on your desktop, we cannot help you with that.-
Only about opening a separate window? Or also about debugging and navigating the code with a different IDE?
Anyway the big problem here is the way you handled the whole discussion and the way you (I'm sorry to say but with a lot of arrogance) don't listen to any requirement or point of view just thinking your own is the right one...
Also if the system is so tied with the IDE (but you never answered about that and clearly didn't want to answer) I really think the architecture is not that good...
I'm sorry to have lost my time here, going to unsubscribe and looking forward to more opened to listen person in the next project...
Bye
Demetrio Filocamo -
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I’m hoping Jetbrains can look into this
Hi Prashant.
Again, thanks for your reply.
It seems that you may be a bit unclear as to why IntelliJ users do not believe you have presented a reasonable solution.
>> There are many development tools out there which run standalone and you have to open a separate window for them. These include profilers like YourKit, JProfiler and tools like Jira, Teamcity, Hudson, Perforce P4V etc.
Some may have minor integrations inside the ide itself, but the main gui resides outside of your ide. <<
Right, the tools you describe already integrate with IntelliJ so don't really help your argument. Running tools outside the IDE is not the problem. Installing, configuring and running another IDE alongside the one you actually use and keeping the projects in sync, just to run a plugin: that's the problem.
>> Thus given the above, the only integration that really makes sense for Chronon with intellij is having the source code available when you switch to the eclipse window, so that you can debug.
And that is the solution we have described in the document.
Exporting is a one time process for each project and after that eclipse will stay in sync with your source code changes from intellij. <<
Right, so what you are proposing is that we take TWO cars on a road trip: one car to drive and another to listen to the radio.
Now that may not seem like a problem to you, but think about this: I know a lot of developers who pay for their own IntelliJ license rather than use the free Eclipse set up offered to them by the company they work for. The reason they do this is because they believe IntelliJ is a more productive environment than Eclipse (otherwise why would they shell out good money for IntelliJ when Eclipse is free?) and with that in mind they're going to be very wary of any workflow that jeopardizes this productivity.
As I said before I understand, completely, your reasons for not wanting to do an IntelliJ plugin. I do not have a problem with that at all. I'm not even asking you to do one anymore.
But what I am saying is that presenting a document called 'Using Chronon with IntelliJ' which then goes on to say 'use Eclipse' is probably a little bit insulting. If you had said, 'We don't support IntelliJ and have no plans to' then that would have been disappointing but probably would have gone down a little better.
>> I appreciate Dennis's offer, but even he does not how complex the chronon UI really is. We have been working on it for years and the fact that you think that it can be implemented easily goes on to show how much thought and engineering has gone in making the UI simple enough. <<
If you believe it would be such a problem to create a plugin for IntelliJ when you already have one for Eclipse, then I'm a little concerned about some of the architectural decisions made when you built the product. That's just me though; I'm no expert.
I think the best thing for all is if we stop badgering you and see if we can get Jetbrains to pick up the reigns on this. I don't think it's beyond their capabilities but I imagine it's a question of resources: between all the work with the IDEs and the new programming language under development, I imagine they're stretched a bit thin. Still, if enough people can contact Jetbrains to support the idea of a recordable debugger then perhaps they'll look into it.
Thank you for your time. -
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It seems strange that Prashant said "No plans yet, but I would love to see if this gets more votes." originally, and then "Bottom line, neither us nor Jetbrains is stupid enough to put huge resources into making a native version of Chronon for Intellij just because doing an Alt+Tab is less convenient to you."
I personally wouldn't buy, because I didn't find Chronon useful enough (I think I need something that can let me step backwards in time, edit code, and then run forwards, not a recording), but this is not a good way to treat customers and potential customers. Mixed messages.
I hope you guys improve on that front, because if you do you could be unstoppable with ideas as well-executed as Chronon. -
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I’m sad and very disappointed
If you can't write a well developed API on which people (or even you) can base plugins for other IDE-s than Eclipse, than obviously your code is not well designed. This is somewhat like having your tool tied just to Windows. I like the comparison with the two cars and the cd player, which is absolutely the same thing.
It frankly amazes me how you would simply close the door for someone like IntelliJ, (the actual developers of Idea), who comes and offers to help you so that you can also have a solution for another platform. I believe this matter was handled quite unprofessionally and I do not understand your stubbornness and level of arrogance. If you won't support it, just say so and don't offer half-assed solutions.
And -- fine, so you've come up with a cool tool nobody else has made yet. Big deal, if you can't market it right. I think you guys should actually find the time to learn how to work with and listen to clients.
I believe we should simply open a feature request for Idea and ask Denis and his people to investigate the possibility of having such a tool/feature added to the debugger.
This discussion and the official solution proposed by Chronon has been an infinite waste of our time and I now doubt I'll ever consider buying it again. -
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I’m disappointed
It is your choice to only support Eclipse and I understand your arguments. But think about it: IntelliJ users are already paying for an IDE and this is the group that will likely pay for other tools. On the other hand I can easily imagine Jetbrains team developing the exact same functionality built into IntelliJ IDEA. Will users choose free Eclipse + commercial Chronon ($59) or rather go for IMHO much better IDE with similar functionality built-in (for the price of 4 Chronon licenses)?
I also feel that you were a bit dishonest with the community, first encouraging the users to vote and actually collecting almost 60 votes for an issue (20x more compared to other top Ideas) just to give lousy (I think all agree on that) workaround and close the issue. You could have stated from the very beginning that you won't support any other IDE rather keeping IntelliJ (and Netbeans) users to wait.
BTW shouldn't "Netbeans support for chronon" also be closed, even though you stated that "It would be interesting to see if this gets more votes."? -
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Right, It's logically. People/companies who already have commercial IDE choice a way of saving time of developers by buying professional tools. Suppose CHRONON wants be in the same row. It means that intellij it self could be proud to have this in plugin. When I make a purchase of IDEA and I see proposal to include Chronon which promoted by IntelliJ company...why not!!???
Prashant, think in this way....but for me like a developer to have Eclipse open with Idea is not a critical problem since I will save 90% of my time investigating production non-reproducible bug. -
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1This is too bad.
Our company are always looking to new products to improve our workflow. We would be interested if you created an IntelliJ plugin but running Eclipse side-by-side with IntelliJ is not a good enough solution. -
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Any chance of revisiting this?
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Your solution is to install Eclipse alongside Idea. I have tried Eclipse numerous times and it is not in the same league as Idea! It is *heavy* and slow, very slow! I certainly vote for an Idea plugin to your superb product!
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1Jetbrains is adding Chronon support to IDEA 13.1!
Check this out:
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EMPLOYEE
I’m happy
Its finally here! Official plugin for Intellij, directly from Jetbrains:
Details on our blog:
https://chrononsystems.com/blog/chrono... -
